Full log of IRC meeting held March 5, 2010:
Summary posted here: L10N_IRC_Meeting_20100305_Summary
[07:50]<mlfoster>Hello everyone---you are here for the L10n meeting, right?
[07:51]<Yanhai>I'm here, Margie.
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[07:51]<mlfoster>I am not an IRC guru, so if someone can capture the meeting so we can post it later, that would be great. Hi Yanhai! Glad you are here.
[07:53]<mlfoster>The agenda is posted here: http://wiki.meego.com/L10N_meeting_3_01
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[08:00]<mlfoster>Hi everyone! Glad you are all here. Sorry that the topic still shows as the community meeting--I'm not that familiar with IRC to change it. We're here to talk L10N for MeeGo.
[08:01]<mlfoster>I see several familiar names! So, let's get started.
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[08:02]<mlfoster>Let me introduce myself--I am Margie Foster, I work at Intel, and I have been the L10N program manager for Moblin, and will continue that role for MeeGo.
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[08:03]<mlfoster>I attended the community meeting last week, and I know that L10N was mentioned, particularly Transifex, which is one of the agenda items. But let's discuss a L10N steering group (agenda item #1)
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[08:04]<mlfoster>OgMaciel: you've been involved in Moblin l10n, what do you think about a steering group?
[08:05]<OgMaciel>mlfoster: what would the objectives of said group be?
[08:05]<OgMaciel>that definition will help us better discuss it
[08:06]<sofar><- auke (signed on from home)
[08:06]<mlfoster>IMHO, I see it as being the "buck stops here" for any issues that cannot be resolved within the MeeGo L10N community--also working with the TSG to determine schedules from the roadmaps--communicate l10n information, maintain and supervise use of the tool Transifex...
[08:07]<mlfoster>I'm really open to how this will work...and I want this to be very open
[08:08]<OgMaciel>mlfoster: It is my experience that having a body of knowleageable(sp) people to point newcomers as well as "veterans" which direction to go, specially related to deadlines and milestones, it primordial
[08:08]<OgMaciel>basically, people who can hold hands when needed and to make the roadmap visible to all
[08:09]<OgMaciel>100% behind the openness
[08:09]<mlfoster>I don't know the ideal size of a steering group---too many people and it gets unwieldy, too few, and you don't get anywhere. And yes, I agree with you.
[08:10]<OgMaciel>mlfoster: initially this group would have to be made up of people directly linked to meego as that type of information related to goals won't leak down to the "lower ranks" right away
[08:10]<mlfoster>We need to have regular meetings, open to all interested parties, and use the mailing list and wiki to keep everyone informed
[08:10]<OgMaciel>then you'd have some of the team leads...
[08:12]<OgMaciel>back when I administered the Brazilian translators for Ubuntu, I would plugin to the Canonical resources and find out what direction to go... then I'd inform the rest of the gang and plan accordingly
[08:12]<mlfoster>If I may ask, how did maemo l10n work? Was (is) there a steering group there? a council? I look to you all for your experience in dealing with communities. The Moblin l10n community is very young yet
[08:12]<OgMaciel>hi there solt and koupsa
[08:12]<solt>I would see steering group a bunch of people bridging between developers and translators, aligned to top level steering group
[08:13]<mlfoster>and we have the opportunity here with MeeGo to use that experience to do things right from the very beginning
[08:13]<OgMaciel>mlfoster: I'm afraid my involvement with maemo wasn't as I planned it to be... with that said, I feel that most projects don't really do a good job at making clear to their translators what to expect other than "get ready to translate"
[08:14]<mlfoster>OgMaciel: Yes, I agree with you. Moblin has been guilty of that as well. :-(
[08:14]<OgMaciel>knowing ahead of time what the deadlines are can be very helpfull to team leaders when allocating resources
[08:14]<sofar>we've been hammering our managers this week about those dates
[08:15]<mlfoster>this is where it gets a bit difficult at the moment--getting those dates
[08:15]<OgMaciel>mlfoster: I must say that I am also very keen on producing great quality translations, so I feel that the team lead plays a major role
[08:15]<OgMaciel>they, team leads, must buy in the entire enterprise
[08:16]<mlfoster>OgMaciel: Yes, and I'm the main contact here at Intel. I do not know yet who my counterpart is at Nokia. (if there is one)
[08:17]<OgMaciel>getting exciting and trully dedicated team leads can make the steering committee's job a whole lot easier... strong oppinioanated(sp) members can also be a distraction :)
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[08:18]<mlfoster>and am I wrong in assuming that the folks who have posted their language prefs here: http://wiki.meego.com/Language_specific_working_groups would be those team leads?
[08:18]<dudanogueira>catching up the meeting... :)
[08:19]<mlfoster>Can those of you who have posted on that page please let us know if you are willing to be the lead for that language? Post it next to your name on the page.
[08:19]<OgMaciel>for one, the fact that some offered to take upon themselves to add their names to specific teams could be a good sign but their true meaning can't be told until maybe after a few meetings, etc
[08:19]<mlfoster>yes, I agree with that. I really appreciate the willingness to help
[08:20]<sofar>team leads usually are recognizable by the amount of translations they submit
[08:20]<dudanogueira>Let me introduce, first. I work at International Syst, a brazilian company that is working together with intel in order to put moblin (and when the time comes, meego) into those cute litle devices, aimed primally for education
[08:20]<OgMaciel>sofar: imho recognition from peers also counts
[08:21]<sofar>yes, volume != quality here.
[08:21]<dudanogueira>I already know Og from other communities, and look forward to push meego to the masses!! ;)
[08:21]<OgMaciel>mlfoster: for instance, and I mean no disrespect to anyone, I know certain people who would be a perfect fit for certain teams
[08:21]<OgMaciel>dudanogueira: add your name to
[08:22]<sofar>OgMaciel: agreed[08:22]<OgMaciel>dudanogueira: add your name to http://wiki.meego.com/Language_specific_working_groups
[08:22]<dudanogueira>OgMaciel: didn't know about this wiki, adding...
[08:22]<solt>team lead is not only big volume... I would even expect less volume in favor of keeping all in a grip, so translations are consistent and at high quality
[08:22]<OgMaciel>mlfoster: something important imnsho is to make a point of being first citizen with the upstream teams
[08:23]<mlfoster>OgMaciel: not sure I understand what that means
[08:23]<OgMaciel>mlfoster: for instance, packages coming from GNOME should be handled with the utmost care
[08:24]<OgMaciel>mlfoster: making sure to work with the upstream translator and getting translations coming from meego volunteers through their process of approval OR at least providing a patch
[08:24]<OgMaciel>this will foster a great relationship
[08:25]<Yanhai>that's to say we need some guys from gnome foundation
[08:25]<mlfoster>OgMaciel: yes, this has been some trouble for us during Moblin work...I'm afraid we angered a couple of upstream folks and it was not intended at all. I want to avoid that again
[08:25]<mlfoster>it's hard to determine who's who when one is not an actual translator
[08:25]<OgMaciel>mlfoster: understood... I have ideas on how to do this and we can leverage some of the features on Transifex to acchieve it
[08:26]<sofar>also the gnome community needs to work with us as we get things started - and help us get process worked out
[08:26]<mlfoster>OgMaciel: would you be willing to be part of the steering group?
[08:26]<OgMaciel>sofar: agreed... getting them involved would be a good thing
[08:26]<Yanhai>also QT community
[08:26]<OgMaciel>mlfoster: I am more than willing
[08:26]<mlfoster>I see this as part of the SG responsibilities
[08:27]<mlfoster>reaching out to existing communities, creating good relationships, working together
[08:27]<OgMaciel>sounds like a great plan
[08:28]<mlfoster>I must depend on all of you to identify the right folks to contact in those communities--if they have meetings, we should have reps there and vice versa
[08:29]<mlfoster>Let me throw this out here now: how many of you are willing to be part of the steering group?
[08:29]* OgMaciel raises hand
[08:29]<mlfoster>I'm not asking for a lifelong committment :-)
[08:29]* sofar coughs
[08:30]<TheOne>hi, does i unterstand it right, that there will be a major SG for localization and also team leads for specific languages?
[08:30]<sofar>let's put it this way: I'd like to see two nokia people, two intel people, and maybe 5-6 community folks in there
[08:30]<sofar>preferably people with both moblin and maemo backgrounds
[08:30]<mlfoster>TheOne: yes, that appears to be the direction we are heading
[08:30]* OgMaciel agrees with sofar
[08:30]<sofar>me and margie will be the intel folks
[08:31]<sofar>we don't know who our nokia counterparts are yet
[08:31]<sofar>but the maemo community members are well represented I think
[08:31]<mlfoster>OgMaciel and dudanogueira are community members so far
[08:31]<OgMaciel>qguil is probably a good guess
[08:31]<Yanhai>anyone in this meeting from nokia please raise your hands....
[08:31]<sofar>since most of you worked on both moblin and maemo
[08:32]<OgMaciel>qguil is probably a good guess for nokia contact
[08:32]<mlfoster>I don't know how interested in l10n qguil may be
[08:32]<sofar>we can talk to him soon enough
[08:32]<mlfoster>he's the main community guy
[08:32]<mlfoster>but I will see him next week and I can ask
[08:32]<mlfoster>hoping he has names of the Nokia l10n folks
[08:33]<aesantos>Has anyone contacted Maemo l10n stakeholders for this meeting?
[08:33]<mlfoster>OK, we have a start for members of our SG---that's progress!
[08:33]<mlfoster>aesantos: we put the notice on meego.com and sent out email on the list
[08:34]<mlfoster>aesantos: but if you have specific names, that'd be great
[08:34]<aesantos>I'll bug some of them on Monday morning
[08:34]<koupsa>I await the first meego files ....
[08:34]<aesantos>I work for Maemo localisation but not in Nokia. I'll get you couple of names
[08:35]<mlfoster>And please, let maemo and gnome folks know about this effort. I am happy to talk with any of them, in fact, I'd love to!
[08:35]<mlfoster>aesantos: thank you!!
[08:35]<OgMaciel>I can get in touch with a few gnome guys myself
[08:35]* OgMacieladds to his ToDo list
[08:36]<mlfoster>koupa: the first meego files are on translate.moblin.org right now
[08:37]<mlfoster>we have not changed that yet...which sort of leads us to another agenda item...where to host the project
[08:38]<mlfoster>Many of you know Dimitris Glezos, who is the maintainer of Transifex, the tool we use for translation
[08:38]<OgMaciel>mlfoster: it may sound biased from my part, but hosting things on transifex.net could be a great thing for all involved
[08:38]<solt>Dimitris offered to host the project on transifex.org
[08:38]<mlfoster>YES! I AGREE 100%!!!
[08:38]* OgMaciel waves at glezos
[08:38]* glezos waves to all
[08:39]<koupsa>mlfoster ok thanks... in other words "merci"
[08:39]<koupsa>merci in french...
[08:39]<mlfoster>Dimitris has already talked with me about this, and I am very excited about it. I don't think anyone here would object to this, right?
[08:39]<glezos>Are there any questions I could help answer at this point?
[08:40]<TheOne>i would recommend transifex.org too
[08:40]<Yanhai>yes. I wonder the how auth subsystem looks like.
[08:40]<Yanhai>Can we bind the it to the user info database on meego.org?
[08:40]<mlfoster>I need to talk to the powers that be here at Intel about this, and we probably need to get Nokia to agree as well (and the maemo community)
[08:40]<OgMaciel>glezos: I'll probably talk to you offline about managing certain components that are from upstream projects such as GNOME and how to make sure MeeGo plays nice with them
[08:41]<mlfoster>and we'd need to get approval from the MeeGo TSG
[08:41]<glezos>The idea is to create meego.transifex.net which will host the translations of the projects upstream, without putting more load on the MeeGo admins.
[08:41]<glezos>Similar to what we're doing with gitorious.org
[08:41]<glezos>TheOne: transifex.org is the development portal, transifex.net is the Hosted service.
[08:42]* OgMacielhas to step away for a bit... will catch up with log soon [08:42]<solt>there could be DNS aliases added later on for translate.meego.com etc.
[08:42]<TheOne>glezos: oh right, sorry ^^
[08:42]<glezos>About authentication: I've put a TODO item to add OpenID support. I'm not sure whether MeeGo admins will provide an OpenID authentication backend, but if they do, then we can have MeeGo authentication on Transifex.net
[08:43]<Yanhai>I remember there was OpenID support in moblin.org
[08:43]<mlfoster>I think that OpenID will be supported on meego.com
[08:43]<dudanogueira>I think there is already on meego
[08:43]<dudanogueira>at least on the wiki
[08:43]<solt>For what I read on community list in SSO thread, there was a voice to run OpenID support both way
[08:43]<glezos>I've prepared a lengthy Roadmap for your consideration: http://wiki.meego.com/L10N/RoadmapProposal
[08:43]<mlfoster>glezos: yes, I saw that and it's great. Thank you!
[08:44]<glezos>It's an aggregation of both project's needs (which, are very similar)
[08:44]<Yanhai>Cool. OpenID can solve most our auth problems.
[08:45]<Yanhai>I disabled it in translate.moblin.org cause we want to bind with the central user database of moblin.org at that time.
[08:45]* glezoswill take the chance here to say that way really love new Python/Django promising hackers, and can help them get their hands dirty with code if they'd like to
[08:46]<mlfoster>I think the next steps are to present Dimitris' roadmap to the TSG and get approval from them
[08:46]<glezos>mlfoster: I'd further like to make it more concrete by attaching it to quarters and release numbers.
[08:47]<mlfoster>I don't know when the TSG is going to meet---there's been a lot of chatter about that--so don't have a date to commit to :-(
[08:47]<mlfoster>glezos: release numbers for TX or for MeeGo? or for individual projects?
[08:48]<glezos>mlfoster: sorry, release numbers for Transifex. But..
[08:48]<glezos>oh, no but.
[08:48]<glezos>I just thought of another great thing of using an external service:
[08:48]<glezos>Fedora had a lot of issues with their Infrastructure, because during a release cycle we freeze the infrastructure and Tx upgrades can't happen
[08:49]<mlfoster>I saw that on their l10n list
[08:49]<glezos>With Transifex.net we won't have that problem, as we're doing QA and updates almost every 2 weeks. =) [08:49]<glezos>So we won't have to hold-off any new features because of the MeeGo roadmap/releasing. Which is really good news for our translators.
[08:49]<mlfoster>yes, that sure is!
[08:50]<Yanhai>Is Transifex.net so-called 'SaaS'? :p
[08:50]<mlfoster>OK, one of the issues that someone added to the agenda was "Do we inherit strings from Moblin?" Answer: yes. These are on translate.moblin.org for now
[08:50]<glezos>Yanhai: I guess. :)
[08:51]<glezos>right on. Two TODOs then: One for me to prepare a more concrete plan (keeping in mind the meego roadmap) and one for mlfoster to communicate with the TSG
[08:52]<mlfoster>There is active transalation going on right now, although there is also active development (as you all are probably aware)
[08:52]<glezos>A side-note about OpenID: the Sign-on will be resolved if meego.com acts as a "OpenID producer" not "OpenID consmer".
[08:52]<mlfoster>glezos: I will pass that along to the webmaster
[08:53]<glezos>This means that the MeeGo account system would expose support to authenticate users, so one can use "johndoe.people.meego.com" as a username on a remote site (such as Transifex.net)
[08:53]<glezos>mlfoster: thank you
[08:54]<mlfoster>another agenda item was a L10N project plan
[08:54]<mlfoster>an excellent idea--just not sure how to implement it
[08:54]<glezos>mlfoster: Please note that I would be happy to help with the steering group, if my experience with the Fedora L10n Steering Group and role with L10n engineering could help in any way.
[08:54]<mlfoster>glezos: I was counting on you! :-)
[08:54]* OgMacielis back and reading log
[08:55]<mlfoster>does anyone here have experience with creating an open L10n plan that may have multiple contributors?
[08:56]<mlfoster>I can certainly begin one and post it for review and suggestions
[08:56]<mlfoster>of course, I will need some firm dates and other info that we don't have at the moment
[08:57]<OgMaciel>mlfoster: sounds like you've volunteered yourself to get that ball rolling ;)
[08:57]<glezos>mlfoster: Is that a date-based plan which will connect with specific release dates? Or a more big-picture "where should we be in 6 months from now" one?
[08:57]<mlfoster>if any of you know of a good plan (from whatever source) that is community (not proprietary) based, please send me the URL
[08:57]<mlfoster>OgMaciel: no problem!
[08:58]<mlfoster>glezos: I envision both and I think we need both
[08:58]<glezos>mlfoster: You might want to take a look at the Fedora schedule: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/13/Schedule
[08:58]<glezos>and the more detailed one: http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-13/f-13-trans-tasks.html
[08:58]<mlfoster>glezos: yes, I look at that a lot and cry (they are so organized)
[08:59]<mlfoster>and have such a mature community
[08:59]<mlfoster>I want MeeGo to be like that and I think we have that potential--lots of great people already here and involved
[08:59]<glezos>mlfoster: It needs time, but mostly, good will and good energy. :)
[09:00]<glezos>I believe we have the basic ingredients.
[09:00]<mlfoster>well, I have lots of good will...hope I can keep up the energy!
[09:00]* glezosthinks how hard it was to setup Fedora L10n that MeeGo seems a piece of cake. =)
[09:00]* OgMacielwill email his proposal on how to handle translations from other projects such as GNOME
[09:00]<glezos>mlfoster: Let me know if you need help with the planning.
[09:01]<mlfoster>I'd like to know if there are any upcoming events that any of you may be attending in the near future...I'd sure like to meet as many of you as I could (within very restricted travel budget)
[09:01]<solt>Actually the Fedora plan is very good one to start. It's logical and sounds aligned to soft development
[09:01]<glezos>OgMaciel: you might want to take a look at: http://trac.transifex.org/ticket/535
[09:01]<mlfoster>OgMaciel and glezos: thanks!!
[09:01]<OgMaciel>glezos: dully noted
[09:02]<OgMaciel>mlfoster: my pleasure for sure :)
[09:02]<glezos>mlfoster: I'm planning on attending OSCON
[09:02]* OgMacielis staying put on sunny North Carolina
[09:02]<mlfoster>glezos: Yes, and I hope to see you there! Anyone else?
[09:03]<mlfoster>we can set up a birds of a feather meeting at OSCON
[09:03]<Yanhai>I hope I was there...but I can't :)
[09:03]<glezos>mlfoster: Sounds like a great idea.
[09:03]* OgMaciel wishes he could go
[09:03]<mlfoster>OgMaciel: me too!
[09:04]<mlfoster>OK< we've hit on a lot of topics and have a few TODOs...are there any open topics we should mention before wrapping up?
[09:04]<OgMaciel>when is the next meeting? :)
[09:04]<mlfoster>How about 2 weeks from today--same time?
[09:04]<glezos>mlfoster: 2-weeks sounds good.
[09:05]<mlfoster>gives me time to do those TODOs
[09:05]<glezos>Is the time OK for everyone?
[09:05]* OgMaciel pokes sofar
[09:06]<mlfoster>I will post this meeting, post the next meeting info, and get to work on my TODOs.
[09:06]<glezos>mlfoster: you rock
[09:06]<mlfoster>you guys are awesome--I am really looking forward to working with you all
[09:06]<OgMaciel>mlfoster: right back atcha
[09:07]<mlfoster>so, that being said, we are officially done. Thank you all for coming. And have a great weekend!!!
[09:07]<OgMaciel>sofar: about next meeting time
[09:07]<sofar>is probably fine
[09:07]<OgMaciel>you too mlfoster and all
[09:07]<glezos>mlfoster: thanks for the meeting.
[09:07]<solt>thank you all
[09:07]<aesantos>Thanks guys. Have a great one!